WHISPER: Gregory Meredith on The Magic of Runes (Ep. 55)
“If you look at the word rune in many languages, it essentially means mystery or even more specifically: secret.”
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In this episode of Moonwise, we speak with diviner Gregory Meredith about the magic of runes. We discuss runes as living beings and why a good question can spark healing and transformation. He shares his story of reconnecting with ancestral knowledge and how the runes came to him. He shares insights about fatherhood, magic and respecting the role of the feminine and our nonhuman kin.
We also talk about:
Prioritizing experiential knowledge
Reframing the rune origin story of Odin
Ancestral terror and persecution of divinatory arts
Dismantling human and white supremacy in European lineages
The birth of a new story for humanity
Links:
—> Leave us a written review on Apple Podcasts, and get a shout out on the show!
WHISPER: Gregory Meredith on The Magic of Runes - Ep. 55 (Transcription)
Dorothee: Hello, and welcome to MoonWise podcast, a space to celebrate seasons, cycles, and rights of passage. I'm your host, Dorothee Sophie Royal, and today, I'm honored to speak with our very first male guest, diviner Gregory Meredith, about the magic of runes. We discuss wounds as living beings and why a good question can spark healing and transformation. He shares his story of reconnecting with ancestral knowledge and how the runes came to him. He shares insights about fatherhood, magic, and respecting the role of the feminine and our non human kin.
We also talk about prioritizing experiential knowledge reframing the runeed origin story of Odin, ancestral terror and persecution of depository arts, dismantling human and white supremacy in European lineages and the birth of a new story for humanity. Before we begin, I want to thank everyone who has left a rating and review of MoonWise on Apple podcasts. It really helps others find the show and it takes just a few minutes to make a big difference in spreading the word. Gregory Meredith is a drummer, plant person, diviner and guide, who loves to explore the patterns and symbols that make up the fabric of our existence.
He studies and works with many systems such as the runes human design, and numerology to name a few. In his words, he says, "it brings me great joy to explore the foundation upon which all of these systems are connected. And how they can provide a language for meaning making for those seeking to experience other ways of relating to themselves and others. I'm here to serve others in finding their unique clarity and purpose and to help others go deeper in their spiritual journey." Hi, Gregory. I am honored to have you on the show as our very first male guests. Welcome.
Gregory: Oh, thank you very much. I'm honored.
Dorothee: We're recording this just a few days away from Beltaine, which is a Celtic cross quarter holiday celebrated by many to celebrate renewal and fertility. So that feels especially auspicious at this moment. I'm just so excited to talk with you as many of my listeners probably know I'm basically booking interviews on a purely intuitive basis at this point in the podcast five years in. And Gregory just kept lighting up for me. Let's evolve. Let's transform what's renewed with some new energy on the podcast.
So really excited to chat with you about runes and your beautiful work in the world to start with. I have heard you speak about the runes as living beings, as shape shifters, and as being something inherently mysterious. So I want to make sure to approach this with full respect to the multidimensionality of this topic. And with that said, for those of our listeners who may not know much about this ancient relationship of humans and runes, Can you start by telling us who the runes are in your understanding?
Gregory: Oh, yeah. That's a great question. Well, I could start off by just saying right off the bat, like, when it comes to the all the intricacies of the historical and, like, cultural significance of the runes, like as a as a whole, I'm I'm still very much a baby in my understanding about, like, the archaeological findings and the and the proof of using quotations that we have of of things like being this time or this place with respect to the people that literally their whole lives are dedicated to on earthing and and maybe exploring the past as like, okay, how can we really get a grasp of where we're at now by looking into the past and, like, kind of, having these markers of, like, okay, this these symbols were carved in stone in this place over here and and all that stuff. For me, the runes are very, like, as you've read in in one of the main posts I have about, like, where I just essentially say that the runes are living beings. It's not an original thought, like, that's that's something that has come from other teachers that I I have received wisdom from, and I am an animist, so for lack of a better word, I I see everything is living as living beings.
So with the runes, people talk about language like, okay, language like there's alphabets and there there's all these different languages. Right? There's something about the runes where they're referred to as a proto language because people don't really know how to, like, talk about, like, what are the runes? Like, literally, if you look at the word rune, in many languages, it essentially means mystery or even more specifically, secret is a word that's thrown out. And also something that is whispered, something that is like like, you know, something that it's not it's not necessarily this overarching.
This is what this mean. Like, each be each rune is a being and it's not like, okay, I will go on the Internet. Say, I'll go on the Internet. Just like, I I've been into Terra for a while. And anyone that's into any kind of divination system, you could, like, type in, like, okay, the devil card.
What does that mean? Oh, there wasn't a devil card before this time. That's interesting. Why did that come up? Or it was something else before then, there's all of that stuff that happens.
And I'm kind of bouncing all over the place, but it's the same thing with runes. Like, I'll look up a a rune And then I'll just see, okay, it's associated with this. And and, you know, especially with one of the the most what's most commonly known to people with the runes is the Elder Futhark, which is that that alphabet is twenty four runes. And there's a reason why it's called futhark, and that's because it's basically the first, Futhark is the first or the first letters, like, there's the f rune, the who, and there's the Uruz. It spells out Futhark.
When you look at a say a Rune for a description, it'll say joy. Like, that's something for Wunjo, which It looks like a p, but it's it's the the w essentially. But the one of the main things that's associated with it is joy. And it's like, why is it associated with joy? You know, why like, that for me, it's it's it just leads to more questions, like, why this, why that?
And then when I go into the whys and the questions, all all this, like, personal information is revealed to me, all all this intimate significance is revealed to me. It's not necessary necessarily like, okay, now I share that with everybody else. That's what's very tricky about the runes. And that's why my favorite teachers and one of them being Ingrid Kincaid who lives in Portland where you live in Portland. Right?
Yeah. She is a question asker. She is an ultimate crone, question asker. Like, I have two of her books, and they're just they're just they're like, each root is like, it says, how many questions can we ask? And how many amazing questions can we ask?
My origin story with the runes is that I drew them before I even knew what they were really. They were in my drawings, you know, especially when I started, like, waking up to, like, I kinda my style of drawing and writing is more of like a intuitive and automatic style. I just sit down and do it. And that and that's what comes through. And a a lot of the runes that we're coming through were not in the main they're not the main, most well known Elder Futhark alphabet. They're from, like, extended quotations, alphabets.
For me, I relate to anything pretty much as a being, like including the chair that I'm sitting on, So that's I'm taking it to as as far as I can take it. But with the runes, I'm looking at this wound up rune right now. And I'm just I'm just like, when I look at a person, do I go, okay, this person means this. Okay. Dorothee.
Dorothee means well, we could talk about what that name means, but you're you're not your name. You know? It's like, I I have my birthday, Gregory, but I've been called I I have I've had many names. Like, I resist definitions. I don't like to be put into those things, so I don't wanna do that to a rune.
Like, but then at the same time, I wanna be clear with people you know, and when I do when I say if I do readings, I don't wanna sit there and explain. I don't like to, like, be very explainy, but I am being very explainy. So it's kind of like it it's a constant paradoxical thing that's happening. Something that, like, is very common with the runes. It's okay.
It's associated with especially with the Elder Furthark there, the correspondences with the English alphabet. Right? It's like, okay. There's say who is the f sound or and and that could be very helpful if you're literally trying to spell things out. And you're wanting to work with them and even highlight highlight one's relationship that they can have with the language they speak.
For instance, like, feel like a lot of English speakers are kind of indifferent to English or, like, can be frustrated? Like, there's often I find often sentiments with the English language like, oh, there isn't a word for that, you know. Especially when we're trying to have more expanding conversations about especially about spiritual things or, like, significences, like, senses that we, like, poetic notions, or, like, we're sitting down, we're having this experience, like, man, this is a very specific experience I'm having. What's the word for that? And oftentimes, you could find that phrase as very well articulated in another language.
But it's and I'm not trying to come down on the English language. I think it's a universal language. It's something that a lot of us can connect on. It's it's it's been decided by seemingly the something or the world that we are that this is like a main language that we're using to communicate. But I think the runes are a great way to expand one's vocabulary and and bring about more inquiry into daily life.
And by inquiry, I mean, like, self inquiry, like asking questions, asking better questions, and and and prioritizing a question before the answer. And maybe the answer is it as I don't wanna say an answer isn't important or as important. I don't wanna make it like that, but I just want to emphasize that questions are important. And the runes help me ask questions just like years ago when I got into the taro, I was excited by the images and the colors and just the questions like just the concept of especially in divination, there is this concept of asking the question, like, the container of the question, because we could sit down and I could pull all these cards. And it's like, what is this about?
You know? It's like I could start to be like, oh, this is definitely about something. Or if we're talking about something, and I'm pulling cards, I can I can see the relationships there? But a question, it doesn't even necessarily have to have to be asked out loud. But and it doesn't have to be like, the the most clear question ever.
You know? A question could be almost like, I don't even know what the words are for this. And I and I there's something stewing within me. And oftentimes, that's enough for a reading, a a reading like, you know, a terror reading or a a rune, casting, a rune reading. Oftentimes, the question has not been formulated.
And and it's in it's it's coming into form. And the runes help clarify what that question is. We might get to the end of it, and then we know what the question is. You know? Because really, if one can, in my opinion, if one can formulate the question, then then the answer like, the answer is, like, encoded into that in my feeling, in my experience.
Dorothee: I love that. I I've heard very wise people say that the right question can be the most powerful thing and it can set transformation in motion. So that makes a lot of sense to me. And so from what you're saying, the runes in a way, they feel prismatic, like, their portals not just symbols. I mean, they are symbols often carved, is this correct on wood, on bone, or stone?
Gregory: Yeah. Those those are the common things and and and especially on wood. And that's, you know, scholars you know, it's still speculation, but it speculated that the reason why we don't have so many records, like, they're just not so prolific, is because they were carved nonparishable things. Stone wasn't made even maybe the main one. You know, it's like you had to really be like, okay, I'm gonna do this if you're gonna do it on stone.
You know? And even stone over time, like, you know, it's it lasts longer than like, say, a wood piece that I have here, you know. But, like, the they're they're something else with that is like, wow, they commonly are expressed through the literal elements. Like, this is all We're all in an elemental field. It doesn't matter, like, this computer is made of crystals and the elements.
But but, like, you know, they they have a temporal aspect. They they because the aspect of them that's everlasting is is a subtle aspect. You know, and and even and then the the myths, like, with odin hanging from the tree or any of the other myths, like, there's this talk of, like, the root. Like, it's like, you gotta, like, get under in there. You gotta go through some kind of thing to to get because it's it's, like, through a veil.
It's through some kind of, like, you're piercing through, like, the ether to you know, so there is this what's the word? Like, I feel like prismatic is a pretty that's a pretty cool word. I haven't thought of it that way. But portals I mean, yeah, they're definitely portals. I mean, in a very literal sense, they they're a portal.
And so if if I say in the morning, you just one pulls a rune and then isn't going right to like, okay, what does this mean? What it like, because I've since I've started making sets, most of the sets that I have made so far are for people that are in in my immediate community, like my friends or friends or friends, And one of my friends is like because I okay. I have I have a reference sheet for the runes. Right? So practically, if you're good, one is going to buy a set.
It's nice to like be like, okay, start somewhere. I don't want to completely frustrate people because my style would be like, Here are the runes. Go for it. But did I speak to you? Yeah.
I this is part of my personality, but and I I've always like to find out things myself, growing up in a in a pretty like, in a Christian, I would say, Orthodox Christian colonized environment, it's it taught me, okay. I'm not gonna find these. A question answers to my questions through asking them to like, the the people around me that is not going to happen the way I thought it was going to happen. I had to start doing the self inquiry thing. I had no idea how, like, as a little boy, I knew how to do that.
I had but I had to unlearn a lot of things that I learned to get to this point where I can have that self inquiry process again. Back to the self inquiry process. I made a step for my friend. I have the reference sheet. The reference sheet is like I I have the runes written out and there's a little keywords written next to them just for prompts for people to get started.
Word associations are not definite I don't definitely not definitions, but starting points, I'll say. But sometimes what will happen is there there are several different versions of many runes. So all depending on like the alphabet or what someone if they wanna do how do I say this? A good example is Jera, which is it's kind of hard to just talk about without people seeing it, but they can look it up. It's like there are two main versions of it.
There's one that's like basically there's another rune called Kenaz and you'll see how like there's a lot of runes are within other runes because they're all they're all these like lion. They're just they're all coming from the esa line, which is like that one line. And they're like building they're like these layers that that kind of superimpose or they get arranged in different ways because they're speaking to universal principles, natural law, like the laws of nature, the elemental laws. And so you'll have, like, Jera is like this. Two Kenazs facing each other almost like I think of a lot of times, I think of Pac Man like that.
But then there's another version that's you take those two Kenaz shapes and you put them together to create a diamond. Which is another rune, it's Ingwas. But then you have a line through it. You have esa going through it.
And that's another version of Jera. So you already have, like, runes making up other runes or they're part of other runes, and then you'll have two or three different versions of the same main rune. My friend was like, okay, hey, which one is this? It doesn't look it doesn't look like the one that I have. It was the same one. But because I hand drew the one and I would burned the other into the thing. He was like, wait, you gotta make sure that these are clear for people. You know, like, it was like there was a concern. And I was I was like, okay.
How do I say that it's not the same every time? You know, it's like, when you draw a letter a, some people draw a's this way. Some people draw a's that way. It's like that. And then and that'snot even getting into with the English app, but that cursive You know, what what what is that? What is cursive? It's a curse. Anyways, it's that I'm kind of joking, but I'm kind of also not joking if you get my drift. Does does that make sense?
Dorothee: It makes sense. It's actually making me think about our English alphabet differently from a more Oh, wow. We actually just have magical symbols that like mean things in our everyday life, which we take for granted.
Gregory: Exactly. Yeah. Because you can that that's that is like the thing that a lot of people don't talk about, and I'm glad that it's just coming up because like, I'm sitting here and I'm judging English, you know. Like, as a as a person that has to do the thing. Like, oh, you know, because I don't know about what your experience was like.
I had an amazing English teacher, but she was a task master I mean, I had to memorize everything. Amazon was where we being a bit havas had, dude, I did. So I was sure that maybe I must can't get like, I had to memorize the adverbs, the the the prepositional phrases, like all the different rules and and of English. It's very It was drilled into me. But I I was never I never thought about Like, I thought spelling, you know, we all most of us have learned at this point, oh, spelling spells, casting spells. That's right there. There's all these things that are right there. They're like, wow. This is magic.
We are using magic right now. But the thing is, when it's not acknowledged that this is magic, we use magic on a basic everyday level every day. That that is what the runes can help one with is realizing like, oh, English isn't so boring. English is coming from other languages. Where the magic was maybe a little bit more, like, in the forefront.
Like, you could see that. Like, you know, we well, what you might think you know, Latin is more magical because we see those phrases use like in alchemical texts and we see even just in like Harry Potter and stuff when they're doing spells. It's in Latin or it's in Greek or whatever. So it's like, it's right there. It's like, it doesn't matter what language it is. There is deep significance historical, cultural, magical, etcetera, in language. And runes are just like very, very, like, Like, if you if I if I made the other rune sets with just like the English alphabet, like, it it would be funny. But it wouldn't be that different in my opinion.
It wouldn't be like so different because the b is still very similar to the the runic Burkhana b. Like, they're it it it can help people realize, like, oh, wow. Like, they just kinda curve that It's not as like this. It's a little bit curved or whatever. So It really is amazing what I'm realizing, like, every day, it's like, I'm kind of pew There's these layers and there's these illusions.
And it's just like, how many skins can I shed? Like, how many things can I peer through to get to, like, oh, I can see that more? I could see what I normally could not see. I could feel it. Maybe there's other things that There's other things going on that I couldn't see it, and maybe I needed to close my eyes to see it better.
Dorothee: You it makes me think of a piece of art that you shared on Instagram of runes woven in with tree bark, I think it was, and then you wrote, "see through the trees". And that really struck me on many levels because you could be, you know, talking about the art, but also those runes are carved on wood and I feel you saying we're appearing through this physical object to go to a different place where we can find the questions or find the that other layer that you're talking about piercing through.
Gregory: It's really cool to receive the reflections of because I often I mean, I I get comments on posts. And stuff. But but honestly, I just kinda put it out there. A lot of times, I don't receive feedback. But but it's because it's like this I guess where I'm coming from is the self inquiry process.
And it's really cool to see, oh, like, that brought about internal process for you. And for me, I was just, like, very much I was probably just, like, yeah, see through the tree. Yeah. Whatever. You know?
But it's but it's true though is, like, trees. Okay? Just trees are incredible. They're so unbelievably incredible and there's so many of them thankfully. It's where I live and where you live.
Incredible trees, they they had to trim this tree, like, that's right outside my window. And it, like, it it brought I it brought me pain. Like, I was, like, in you know, like, maybe not like like a limb is getting cut off, but at least, like, my hair is getting cut. Something is happening. And but it's like it needed to be trimmed.
It it it was it was struggling a bit because of it was stretching out in a certain way. But that's that's something that's right in front of us all the time. Are, like, trees. And and I've been I don't know what other questions you have, but, like, I could I could just say, like, how how the runes kind of came in for me on one level. Like, there's there's several different levels, but In two thousand nineteen, like there you and I and and my partner Melissa and there are several other beautiful people that are part of this Kontomble group ritual.
And I asked the question, like, what is my purpose? I was like, I'm gonna ask like, I'm gonna ask the question that people ask me and, like, people ask anybody, like, people ask in general, like, that's always a question, like, what is my purpose? What is the point? Like, why am I here? Like, And it was just, like, hilarious hilariously clear.
And I was, like, what? You know, it was, like, oh, yeah. You're you're a diviner. And I was like, okay. Cool.
Whatever that means. Like, that's great. Because, like, I was kind of like a little bit skeptical because I'm like, well, that's a diviner. Who's divining, that's telling me I'm a divider. So but then I was like, what I am though?
I mean, And then they're like, well, you're a wizard. I'm like, yeah. That's true. But, like, what's my purpose? Like, how do I make this like, how can I function in this world as a wizard, as a diviner?
Like, I'll put that on my thing. There's still I still have friends on Instagram, like, from other lives that I've lived in this life. They don't know what diviners. They're probably like, oh, there's that's just you know, they they some of them still call me Greg because that's when I tolerated people calling me. In the past.
Like, I did realize, like, oh, I can actually stand up with myself and be like, you could call me this. I prefer to be called this, and I'm glad that we're in a culture now that's changing and it's like, hey, I prefer to be called this. I respect that. If someone's telling me, I prefer this I prefer that. I'm gonna respect that.
You know? Anyways, that's a little bit but I'm just I'm just so fired up. So I'm like, okay. They're like, oh, you're a mountain person and you're a diviner and blah blah.
He's like, oh, but the runes. And I was like, the runes. Man, the runes. Because the runes have been coming up for me. You know, there's something that they've always been there.
I mean, it's not like they're like this new thing, you know. It's not like Like, I've heard of the runes. Like, I've seen the runes here. I've seen the runes there. I've seen people talk about them.
Like, you know, I like, they've been around and then there was something that just clicked for me and I was like, wait a second. I was looking at my old drawings and I was like, runes, runes, runes, runes, all over the place. Like, I'm just looking at like, once I started tuning into the runes, I I was seeing the runes everywhere. All the time, like, in everything at, like, all the time. You know, it's just like when you, like, when someone learns about something and then they see it on billboards and they see it. It was just, like, this is, like, ridiculous. And then around that same time in summer of two thousand nineteen, Melissa's dad was just walking around by the water. I I live in Bellingham, Washington area and by the Canadian border. And he like, there was, like, an enchantment that had been abandoned. And there was just this bag of of runes with and had the you know, some of these runes, especially they're made like, some of them they're mass produced or, like, and not just the ones that are mass produced, but there's there's a common practice with the runes is like they'll make a pouch and then they'll have like one rune on the pouch.
That's a signifier of the rune set. And a lot of times, it's the rune Raidho, which looks like an r. An English r. And and that's like the rune of journeying and, you know, finding your right path or, like, in the Vedic point of view, it's your dharma, you know, or you can buddhist her? It's like so it's all about finding your right path.
And the runes are really helpful in in in providing direction you know, going in the right direction. It could be the left direction too. It doesn't matter, but just because the left could be your correct direction. And he and he brought them home. He he's very much he saves things.
He cherishes things. He's sentimental. He's so sincere with, like, the things that he holds dear. And he was he was like Brett. He was just like, oh, wow.
Cool. He brought them home and he was really tuning into what this one rune in the Othala which is it looks like a fish. He likes it because it looks like a fish pretty much. Is what I feel. He a fisherman.
He resonates with that symbol. Mhmm. You know. And so there's talk about like what Othala means. It's definitely like an ancestral connection rune.
So for me, when I'm seeing that my base so essentially father-in-law is is resonating with the rune of ancestral connection, and he found these roots. Like, he literally found them on like, buy the water. You know? And he's just like, because I was bringing up the runes to him. And then he's like, oh, yeah, I found this.
I found this. And I was just I was just like talking about it because it's been in my field and And he's like, oh, yeah. I found this. And then that is the beginning of what I started making runes because he just gave us these pieces one day before Moses birthday, she was born on winter solstice of December twenty first twenty twenty, we made our our rune set together. We took turns.
It was really cute. We had our wood burner and she did one and then I did the next and we we did this as a ritual on her birthday on the twenty twenty. But but her dad gave us these like perfectly these perfect shapes that he cut. Using reclaimed old grown cedar. He's a carpenter.
He's just he's a really beautiful person, but he's like saved all this like amazing wood. I had already had another set that I got from my friends, but I was like, wow. Like, it it felt really special to make my own and and from what's to make her own too. And and I look at them and I'm like, wow. Like, they're great because I that was in in a certain place when I made them and it really wasn't until our daughter, Rune was born.
And her name is Rune, my daughter's name is Rune. And she chose that name. We had all these these other names that we were thinking about and we couldn't decide and that it just wasn't none of those names. Rune was in there. Rune was in there, but it was kind of like honestly, I felt like it was a pipe dream.
I was like, wow, that'd be so cool to have, you know but then three days after she was born, it was like, it was just Melissa and I both received this knowing, like, at the same time that it like, we just thought of Rune and we're like, that's it. That's it. So there's definitely like this whole ancestral connection thing going on. It's like it's through mine line, but also Melissa's line, her father's line specifically. And then, like, Rune coming in and she is, like, she's always playing with the runes and she loves terror cards, she loves any card.
Like, she just wants to shuffle them and then put them together and then spread them aloud and put them together. She loves taking my runes and dropping them in my tea. Like, I was like, okay. I guess I she wants to gotta drink the runes. This is this is advanced magic here.
There there are these things that we don't need to know why, you know. Like, I'm such a I've been such a wide person my whole life. Like, I I think it's important to ask why. I'm not saying, hey, don't ask why. Ask why all the time.
I'm just saying that sometimes we don't actually need to know the the answer to that to, like, move forward. Because, like, I I feel like I had a hard time moving forward with things. Because I couldn't couldn't get that answer. An answer that I wanted, you know, because maybe the answer that I got wasn't the one I wanted to get you know?
Dorothee: And sometimes your life is the why. Like, at the end of your life, you might understand why. I totally get chills thinking about Rune and the ancestral connection there. And it actually brought up something for me when you're talking about Runes. I had a dream a couple years ago where an ancestor appeared to me with long white hair, probably of Norwegian ancestry. And she told me, we didn't pronounce it, "Rune," we said, "run". And I woke up with the understanding that what she was trying to tell me is that for her generation and maybe before or after it was a danger to work in divination, to work with the runes, that they were on the run. And it was a bit of a terror, you know, but that it was very essential to the ancestral lineage. And so it's it just strikes me as so powerful that these things are being reconnected and remembered. Because it does feel like this is the time when we do that work.
Gregory: That yeah. I I my whole body just chills. Like, my my head, my legs. Like, there there's there's a very There's something that I that I feel deep inside of me. That like, the my ancestors remember the the terror feeling. Like, like, the urgency of, like, oh, okay. It's not, like, okay. Okay. We need to, like, just We need to think about leaving.
We need to think It's like, no, we need to run. Like, you need to be run. Like, you need to run. Like, and there there have been these times where I've had these in in high end states where that there's this that feeling of terrier has come up and it's like this feeling of needing to, like, bolt bolt it. Like, I need to, like, just start running for my life.
And that is like one of the greatest gifts I've ever received is that feeling, in the potency of that feeling. Because it makes me realize how much in my life I've I've been running away from something. And one of my favorite there's this there's this Gil Scott Heron quote. I've worked like, there's this he has a he has a poet. And and he he talks about running. He's like, I'm not running I'm not running away. I'm running. He's basically, he's saying I'm running to the thing. I'm running, I wanna run to that, you know?
And I'm not saying anybody should run towards, like, an obvious threat or anything. But just just like the it's when there there's that feeling these indescribable, like feelings of dread, fear, those kind of things. Sometimes, they're not like, okay, I'm gonna die now. Like, there there's, like, we're remembering something of when that was really the case. And there's wisdom in that.
Like, there's, like, there's, like, a deep wisdom in that. And, you know, I I just watched the Northman the other day that that Richard Eggers movie. And to me, it's just amazing that that movie came out. Like, because I'm sure people have, like, will have issues within. People praise it for different things.
But it is very they they got the terror part in there. Like, they got, like, a part of that that is is connected with I feel like they do a pretty good job of, like, actually just showing the viewer, like, they are doing rituals and there's magic involved and then there's, like, the royalty, but they're connected to their blood line and their their there's all the stuff going on. But it's clear that, like, it's definitely a world where, you know, if it's not you, it's them. It's like, it's it there there isn't like this there's a survival thing going on where there's like lots of swords going on and lots of arrows. You know, it's like every lord the rings.
What they name them all? They they have that, like, there's a violent thing going on. You know, and that that violence doesn't just go away, you know. I don't know how to speak to it, but it's like the vial there's a violence that is there, that we have to work with. And and if we don't acknowledge it, then it becomes like me just spewing out this why did I say that?
I didn't have to say that to the person I love, or I didn't have to make this body language, this gesture that is clearly like like, you know, it's I feel like the runes because they're so inexplicably connected to what's called the web of weird, which is all things. Like, it's, you know, the web the cosmic fabric of existence, which is linked to fate and destiny and what, you know, in in the more vedic perspective is, like, karma or, like and then Northern traditions, like, they have ways also of speaking about faith and destiny and and that's something that is in in that movie that I referenced. So I'm not necessarily, like, saying, hey, you gotta go and see that, you know. It's in the field. It's in the It's in the world field right now.
These ideas such as runes, mystery. Also, respecting respecting the feminine role like acknowledging at the very least acknowledging the role of the feminine, not just the bodies of women, definitely the bodies of women, but also the fact that it's this is an internal process for every being that there are these balances of, to varying degrees, these forces and energies And and and one thing I will say about that movie is they didn't have to do this but they even though there's a lot of a lot of sweaty muscles guys, don't get me wrong. I love it. I love it. It's great.
I I I have to say I do love it. But there is they literally say in the movie, like, the woman the women are the ones that know. You know? Like, it says it in the movie. And it there's so many times that it like, when I want I'm watching a magical movie and then it's like, they didn't they had an opportunity.
They didn't do it. Why? You know? They didn't talk. They didn't say it.
You know, when they could have. And it's important to say it now because of all the things that still are being played out. Like, it's important to say the thing. Like, why come on. All this millions of dollars and you're not saying the one thing that needs to be said.
And so it's like, anyways, that's something that happens a lot. I feel like it I'm not super I have to be clear, like, there's a lot of things going on in especially in the Northern Nordic realms like, you know, there's just talk about Odin that he got the not unlike a Christ figure, like, had to go through this torturous thing to then be liberated or to then receive something or to whatever it was. He hung on the on the world tree and there's a varying talk about how long. You know, it all depends on what's the most magical, like, nine days or is it what whatever how many days. He he's able to dip his head or dip into the hell, you know, the underworld and that's where he gets the runes.
But if there's this talk about it, it's kind of like a lot of times there's this talk about it like as if like he's like pulling it out and he's ripping the wounds out. There's just like this like like this I'm ripping them out. I'm something. You know? And it's just like, well, okay.
What's talked about is he was basically doing something that women do culturally at the time.
Dorothee: They were the diviners. Yeah.
Gregory: But then everybody praises the guy that did it. Know, it's like this one guy does it. Like, he does the impossible, and he's venerated as this, like, heroic god-being. That don't get me wrong, all respect to other than. Okay?
But it's just, like, they're like, it's not even about him. It's about, like, how people respond around it. And there's all this, like, oh, you're all runes and skull brother And and it's like I just wanna say that, like, I have four sisters, you know, I am in a male body. I am just as, like, kind of, okay, here here I am. I think especially when we're kind of thinking about, like, gender roles and stuff like that.
I just I've always resisted them, especially being in a male body. There's a lot of things I wasn't interested in. Like, I liked playing sports for fun, but I didn't like, I didn't like the competitive kind of certain other aspects about it. You know, that's not not to say it's not bad. That's a bad thing.
I have an intensity that I like to express, but I express it through my instrument drums. But it also comes through with the wounds. There's an intensity that I can feel sometimes with the wounds. Some people might feel with other, like, say with the itching. I feel like oftentimes in my limited experience with the itching, there's like a curtness.
There's a directness. In a very no bullshit kind of like here you go. And the runes could be like that too, but at the same time, Rooms are runes are people too. So some people are really gentle and like some people are a little bit more like sometimes the same person that's very gentle is also could be the person that's like, you know, I feel that the runes What they represent is like, it's the classic archetype of something that is inherently mysterious, something that is ultimately, you you'll see receive a personal knowing about. There isn't always, like, ready like, here's a very logical rational explanation for this.
And that's why I I love them because they I I I can relate to them. I can relate to them in that way. And I feel like they bring healing to the world especially now when there's for so long we've been in this rational logical, like, that's the only thing that's valuable scientific thing. Like, if it's not science or it's not scientifically this, then it's what is it? And oftentimes, this like, I'm not I don't wanna hate on science because there's really a lot of great things about it, but it's like, if you're just confirming something that the indigenous people have been saying that y'all were listening to, like, it it gets a little bit frustrating to say the least for someone even for me in this body in my limited experience.
Someone who is of dramatic ancestry like myself, connecting with the runes has been very healing for me because I was like, wow. Growing up, I did not a lot of the ancestral things were, like, in the background. Very far in the background. Didn't you even just asking it, like, what's my great great grandfather's name or something? Like, you know, or like, family tree stuff.
Just completely I'm just I just came in this world and I'm like, Wow. This feels out of context. Can I get some context of what's going on here? And so for me to connect, with parts of my ancestry where there is like magic going on, that's very practical too. It's not like it's like it's very practical.
The runes can be very, very practical. It's been very healing for me.
Dorothee: Yeah. I I'm really glad you bring that up because I think about this a lot also being of European lineage and how complex it can be sometimes to reengage with practices that like quote unquote pagan traditions sometimes have been co opted by white supremacist movements. And while, you know, I don't wanna put energy there. I think it is really important to name and acknowledge that that's a reality and share that I think it's really important that we as humanity remember the ancient earth honoring ways of Europe and what, you know, I've heard many people call, you know, so called white people, oh, they don't have any culture. And it just couldn't be further from the truth.
And for me, it's been hidden in plain sight. It awaits our remembering. I have many friends who lament, you know, they're like, all our songs are gone, our rituals are gone. For me, they're not gone. They're in the ether. They're right on the other side of that veil that we're talking about, and they're waiting to be remembered.
And so to me, this act of very respectfully reconnecting with our ancestral ways is in fact a decolonizing process, which I think benefits all of humanity, people of all different backgrounds. So yeah, I just think that's important to say.
Gregory: Couldn't agree more. And, you know, and I will say that there's a lot of people in the northern communities, the Nordic, realms that are, like, dealing with these things that are, like, very like, there's also an energy that I feel with my ancestors and with people that know that these things are sacred and are willing to defend them and and are willing to call out unacceptable unacceptable behavior from other humans in their communities, which is like not not like not a way of canceling people, but just like this these do not go together. This white supremacy in runes, they do not go together. There that is not something that this this supremacy thing. It it's a highly misguided thing.
It's I feel like that whole conversation is is so confusing because it's the race thing or it's the ethnicity thing. Of superiority, inferiority, whatever. But then what about humans thinking, oh, humans are the best. You know? And we can just you know, do whatever we wanna do.
And that was kind of the subtext of some of my upbringing, you know. Like -- Yeah. God, God made us special and that we could do whatever we wanna do. And but but at the same time, we can only do whatever we wanna do if we say, hey, Jesus come into my heart, could do whatever you wanna do. I've had to have a journey of like me for me coming out and saying some of this stuff is really It's been I would just say it's been damaging for me to grow up in a world where I have I have love for Jesus.
Don't get me wrong. But it's like when there's when something like Christianity, something that could be really beautiful, it is. I know people that are, like, that's their thing and they do it. They're really beautiful. But there isn't the acknowledgement of, like, how is used for colonizing the world.
It's only, like, really been recently that I feel like I can even say these things out loud and have people know that that's how I feel about things. You know? It's it's really weird in every sense of the word to grow up as a magical person as a every I feel like everybody is magical, but just for lack of my word, to grow up as a wizard, in a world that seemingly if you're a wizard that is highly threatening and we need to make sure that that you do not do that. Either you don't do that or we're gonna have to, like, fear you into not doing it, and we gotta figure out some way to scare you, like, okay, you're gonna go to hell if you do anything that just feels natural to you. If, like, because that's the subtext that I receive growing up is like, if I do some of these things that felt very natural to me, like even just talking to God, or whatever that is.
In inside of myself, which is apparently prayer, but it's not prayer. If it's not done in this way, or it's not this unless it's done in that way. Something that's very natural for a human to be like, wow. A tree. Let me go touch that tree.
And, you know, even just in our world, it's like, oh, you're a tree hugger. I'm like, what's wrong with hugging a tree? Give me a break, you know? Like, that's what needs to be happening. People need to be hugging some trees. People don't Like, we talk about science. Like, there is a science to the healing art of a tree. You you sit along a tree, energy is constantly circulating and its depicted in the Uruz rune.
If you look at Uruz which is looks like an upside out u, it's the u shape. It depicts the this the trickling down, like, the coming up from below and going up above and down. It basically depicts the concept of rain or just like the healing circular energy of a tree. Like, if you if you sit with your back along a tree, like, it'll there will be this circulation happening. But It's also like how our chi moves, like our energy moves.
So I just feel like if there's a a sickness in the world, it's And I've been a part of this. It's it's part of the thing of like, I wanna I want the answer and sometimes it's like forcing the answer. And then it's like, okay. Well, someone might not I might not deep down know. I might not have the sense of knowing.
But I can really sound like I know what I'm talking about. It's not from personal experience. I can just read a book and then be like, this is what it is. Then I think prioritizing having an experience, like somebody actually prioritizing account and experience and know this from my experience and not just be like, this is how it is everybody. This is just how it is because I had this experience, but resisting that and kind of being like, okay, I've had this experience and this is my experience.
And maybe not focusing too much on other people's experiences, but maybe bringing it in and be like, okay, this is my experience. That's kind of where I've been at is I definitely am someone that tunes into the things. As part of how I learn, I tune into a lot of things. You know? And sometimes I just need to, like, really reel it in and just be like, okay.
Is this my experience or not? I need to stay in my lane, you know. But what is my lane? I might have a really wide lane, but there are some things I'm just like, you know what? This isn't for me.
You know, boundaries, like having boundaries and also being, like, not taking it personally. I think that's really helpful for a lot of especially those of European descent. It's like there's a lot going on, you know, just because I didn't necessarily directly I wasn't playing a direct role in, like, bringing about a lot of these unfortunate things. Maybe some of my ancestors did, you know, and how have I contributed in ways that are not helpful? You know?
And if I'm honest with myself, I'm like, it's a daily process. I I have contributed in unhelpful ways to And and what can I focus on that's in my immediate world? Like, how do I speak to my partner? How do I treat my child? How do I communicate with those in my community?
Like, those are immediate things that I can and I feel like the runes have helped me with this. To bring prospect a perspective that I maybe didn't really see before. Yeah. So I I wanna I wanna respect your time and know that we're the wizard time thing. It's, you know, it's a tapestry in here.
Dorothee: I love it. It's a nonlinear way of communicating which has been undervalued in our society. And I think that you you kind of brought it back in the circle to the conversation we started with, which is that it seems like the runes they have this gift of simplicity in the sense that they defy categorization. However, that makes them also infinitely complex. So it's like this contradiction And what I loved hearing you when you did talk about the story of Odin, this sort of origin story of the runes, pointing out that the way that we interpret that story has a lot to do with our cultural lens where it's like, oh yeah, the strong man, like, just hung from a tree and gouged his eye out. He pulled these runes outright. Instead of, wow, there's this feminine art and way of being and he wanted to also know so he surrendered at the altar of life with ultimate humility almost dying and was gifted and received this knowledge that he passed on to humanity. Right? It's like it's such a different story and I feel like we're in that new we're like in the birth of that new story now. Like, it is safe to reengage with the runes.
Like, we don't have to run. This is the time. Let's remember and let's yes be acknowledging all the harm that's done, but also, like, let's tap into that magic because it has so much for us.
Gregory: I like that. I'm really glad that you communicated that about about other than it especially because that's how I feel about Odin. Some people say Odin. Odin I feel like honestly that could be healing for even, you know, Christians with with Christ with Jesus Christ because it's a similar thing, you know. But it's also like, who is there to help him? Mary Magdalene. She played a pivotal, a central role in in that transformation too. So it's just there's the there's a surface level thing. There's the thing that we could easily see that's right there. But then oftentimes the mysterious thing or the thing that's behind the scenes, which oftentimes is represented or literally like, it's it's a woman or it's a female or feminine being is, like, kind of, you know, the periphery. And now it's like, well, I think certain stories, it's time for other stories to come to the forefront. You know, and that's not just with not just with women, but just all different types of beings. Including non human beings, which are now part of the conversation, you know? Other than human, like, are these these terms that we're now using of, like, other than human kin, you know. It's, like, we're acknowledging their agency and their sentience and their beingness.
That's why I use the word being so much is because even human if you look into the word human people. They're tied up in these, like, legalese things that almost seemed to kind of be disempowering. But Same time. They're not only that. I just like to use the word being because I'm a being, and then I could see an attorney as a being too.
And I'm like, wow, I'm in being this with that. If I'm saying I'm a human, well, that's not a human. That could be helpful for, you know, just differentiation. It can be very helpful. To realize how we're different.
It could also be helpful to realize how we're similar. Finding what balance feels right for each person, but I'm like, oh, being this Like, because I feel related I feel related to a tree. I'm like, I relate to a tree. And I feel what you're I just really loved how you sustainfully just brought that in with the like, how just how how easy it is for us to, there's a story. Right? And then, like, how we respond to that story really speaks to, like, how we can be or how we are. And and there's all there's all these different types of stories, but it's really interesting when you reframe it, like you reframe the Odin story with like the way you reframe it, which is closer to probably how it actually was. But even just when you said it, I felt like a guy just felt like relaxed.
I was like, feels feels much better. It it feels like, there's a word I use a lot and it's my work has been a lot about, like, acknowledging. And acknowledgement. Because there's a lot of things that weren't acknowledged when I when I was growing up, like things that I was just kind of feeling into or, like, what's going on? And this is never acknowledged or how a lot of harm has been caused to people just from not acknowledging.
Like, we weren't just skip steps. Like, there's just skipping. But it's not always like there's linear steps either because look, I'm a very non linear person. But there's a there's something there's a a central acknowledgement step that's being skipped Like, it's like, okay, we're supposed to just trust now. We're supposed to trust these people even though, did did you do that, like, Like, I'm not trying to be like, hey, I I can forgive, but I'm just like, wait, y'all never at y'all y'all never there's never a policy that happened there.
There's never even acknowledgment. Yeah. We did that. Mhmm. You know?
And I think that that's I feel like the acknowledgement, just simply it could be a meditative thing, like, think, you know, from a good risk perspective or it's like an observing. Like, I'm observing. I'm just observing. But that could be acknowledgement. Like, I'm acknowledging that something is going on, you know?
And that's what the runes have also helped me with this. Is the acknowledging. And it's not it's not not saying it's perfect or anything. I've got a lot of things to acknowledge. Got a lot of things to acknowledge still, but I'm just really grateful that I can share with you and that that something drew you to me as your first male guess.
I feel very I feel very honored and humbled by that.
Dorothee: I really feel like this conversation will spark things for different people and different parts of the conversation. And I encourage folks who are listening to to tune in to what what was sparked for you? What did you remember? What are you curious about? Look into that.
That that may be the way that the runes are speaking to us through this conversation. There might be a word, a symbol, a thought, a memory. You never know. So trust that. And for for those listeners who would like to know more about your work, perhaps you know, receive a rune debonation from you or actually purchase runes. You make these incredible, beautiful custom sets, where can folks find you online?
Gregory: My offerings are on my partner's site, the honeybee temple dot com. The honeybee temple dot com. There's a section on their rune journeys or rune readings you could find on there. We also have custom sets that are available in there along with her art and her art courses that she's been teaching that have been really amazing too. My Instagram is whispered obsidian.
It's kind of long, but should be easy to remember, whispered obsidian. I didn't realize about that name until after it was part of a poem that I wrote. It's just another thing. I wrote it before the runes, but then I realized the runes like this whispered relationship and then it was kinda like, oh, wow. Okay.
Whatever. That's cool. With my readings, I've struggled to articulate, as you can imagine, if you listen to this podcast here at the end, that I've struggled to articulate what it is that it does. Right? Because in in the entrepreneurial realms, like, I work for a software company a hilariously full disclosure.
I work for a software company and in in customer service and accounts and stuff like that. And you know, they talk about you gotta have your MVP or minimum viable product. You gotta have, you know, your market whatever. For me, it's like if you if you're digging any of this, this is what a reading looks like basically, is that I accept that maybe I pull some more runes in my my polo taro card because I like those too. But but really the main thing about it though is I'm very much about threshold crossing, people that are in transitionary points in their life that are What do I what do I do?
You know? My my readings are about direction you know, like, you might already know your purpose, but I'm like, I'm very passionate about, like, let's let's get specific. It's an art form.
Dorothee: Wow. Well, thank you so much Gregory. I really appreciate this and I really look forward to continuing to pay attention to the work you're doing in the world. So thank you.
Gregory: Thank you. Thank you for having me and sending appreciation and acknowledgement to all of your listeners.
Dorothee: Thank you for listening to the show. You can hear more episodes on moon wise dot c o or subscribe to the moon wise podcast on Apple podcasts or spotify. If you enjoyed the episode, leave us a written review on Apple podcasts and get a shout out on the show. Reviews help others find the podcast and I read each and everyone. Thank you so much for your support.
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